Sen. Bernie Sanders talks with NPR’s Juana Summers about his new legislation, which would create a sovereign wealth fund, and give the American people a say in regulating AI.
Sen. Bernie Sanders talks with NPR’s Juana Summers about his new legislation, which would create a sovereign wealth fund, and give the American people a say in regulating AI.
Sen. Bernie Sanders talks with NPR’s Juana Summers about his new legislation, which would create a sovereign wealth fund, and give the American people a say in regulating AI.
JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:
A handful of people are getting mind blowingly rich from investments in AI. Senator Bernie Sanders wants to spread that money around. His new legislation would create what he is calling an AI sovereign wealth fund. Top AI companies would be subject to a one-time 50% tax on their stock, filling that fund with – by Sanders’ estimate – nearly $7 trillion. And the American people would have a direct stake in the companies, the idea being that the public could have a say in proposed projects and policies at AI companies. Bernie Sanders, independent senator from Vermont, joins us now. Welcome to the program, Senator.
BERNIE SANDERS: Thanks very much for having me.
SUMMERS: Thanks for being here. OK. I just want to start by asking you, what types of scenarios do you foresee that led you to write this legislation?
SANDERS: It is clear to me that AI is going to be the most transformational technology in the history of humanity. It will dwarf what the Industrial Revolution did. It’s going to move very, very quickly. It will impact our economy and perhaps lead to the loss of tens of millions of jobs over the next decade. It’s going to have a huge impact in devastating privacy rights. There’ll be people who know everything about you – your healthcare records, your banking records, et cetera, et cetera. It is going to have a deleterious impact on the mental health of our kids. Our kids are going to get hooked onto companionship with AI bots. It’s going to impact our democracy. Right now, you’re already seeing deepfakes of people who are saying – who look like somebody that we know but are saying something that is totally fictitious.
SUMMERS: Yeah.
SANDERS: And by the way, there’s the existential threat that as AI becomes smarter than humans, it can lead – become independent and lead to catastrophic impacts.
SUMMERS: Yeah. That’s a long list there. Now, your office has calculated that a 50% tax on the top AI companies’ stock means at today’s rates, a fund could send a $1,000 check to every American each year. Now, $1,000 is not anything to sneeze at, but if AI does permanently change our economy, how much would that help?
SANDERS: Well, the more important point is that the public would have 50% representation on every major AI company. That’s the more important point, actually. And that means that when Mr. Musk and Mr. Bezos and these billionaires who now control the industry want to do something that will be harmful to the American people, the 50% of the people representing the public will say, sorry, you can’t do that. And we have got to work to make sure that AI and robotics work for all of us, not just to enrich people who are already incredibly wealthy and powerful.
SUMMERS: That kind of proposal sounds like something that might be a pretty hard sell for some of the leaders of the leading AI companies. What have you heard from them?
SANDERS: Well, I’m not talking to the leaders of the AI companies. We’re talking to the American people. And here is a very important aspect of this whole discussion, and that is – the foundations of AI is based on human knowledge and human labor. This discussion that we’re having will become part of AI. Every book that somebody has written, every work in mathematics, every poet becomes part of AI. And the people themselves who have built AI – if you like – through their knowledge and work, they deserve the benefits of that. And the American people understand it. So it’s not what the billionaire CEOs want. It’s what the American people want.
SUMMERS: I do want to ask you about one of those CEOs because according to the Associated Press, you did meet with the CEO of OpenAI, Sam Altman, for about an hour in private at your Senate office earlier this month. Did you talk to him about this idea, and what did he think of it?
SANDERS: He was not enthusiastic about this idea, to tell you the truth, but not surprisingly, nor are any of the major CEO executives. They have enormous wealth now. They have enormous power, and they want more. And the idea that the American people will be able to say no to some of their harmful projects is not something they are sympathetic to.
SUMMERS: Now, President Trump has talked about how he wants to start a sovereign wealth fund for the U.S., like ones in Saudi Arabia, China and Norway. Is President Trump a potential ally for you on this legislation?
SANDERS: I doubt it very much. I mean, Trump is actually a good politician. I mean, he’s a terrible president, but he’s a good politician. He knows where people are at. And I think what he’s seeing is what a lot of people are seeing. The American people are angry. They’re tired of getting ripped off. They don’t want to see all this wealth go to a handful of billionaires. And Trump is saying, hey, maybe we can get some of that.
SUMMERS: Have you spoken to the president about this issue?
SANDERS: No. I have not.
SUMMERS: Senator, we began our conversation by talking about a number of the ills and anxieties and concerns that you and others have about AI. I want to ask you this – do you ever wish that AI had never been created?
SANDERS: I am very worried about it. I think AI has real benefits in terms of healthcare and other areas. It’s a very, very powerful tool. But I worry. I do worry, very, very much. If we can lower the work week and increase people’s salaries, if we can improve people’s health, if we can figure out a way to use AI to address the crisis of climate change – that’s positive stuff. But that’s what we’ve got to do. We got to make sure that AI works for everybody and the common good, not just to make the richest people in the world even richer and more powerful.
SUMMERS: Senator Bernie Sanders, independent from Vermont. Thanks so much for your time.
SANDERS: Thank you very much. Take care.
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